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Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. None of them see anything wrong with this. Just typing this has made me a bit queasy. Help keep The Christian Post free for everyone by making a one-time donation today. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. perhaps, assuming cunning strategy on the part of MD and Mark Demoss: *this sector of christainworld is the path of least resistance (especially since from others comments the YRR/reformed world has disowned him). No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? James River Church responds to complaints about crowded, unmasked - KY3 BTW they didnt have a head worship pastor. The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? First, he begins by praying that he wants to make this time just about God and His people; yet he appears to take the stories of Stephen and Paul and apply them to his own circumstance at least that's how it sounded to me. Who has wounded you? Yet its everywhere in the US and Australia. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Hadnt considered that a pastor would brainwash to that length. All allegation deserve to be investigated with openess and transparancy. I have no power over what Driscoll does and he is free to speak on any stage that will have him. Newer ones have theater seating or individual chairs. Many times it kept me from feeling like I was the only one who could see this stuff or understood how wrong it is. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. starts with: Whats worse, total lack of good character. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. plausible they shoved that in jesus mouth, with that taste on his lips. (the death of Jesus on the cross as written in the bible is not enough, mark adds something more exciting and sickening like they shoved an a##-wipe sponge in Jesus mouth.) I'm in on that. He appealed that he had no say in the matter. I know historical accounts can be skewed. Thank you again. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. The worship leaders are all carefully coached and choreographed on how to appear more worshipful and fake their collective ecstatic elation over being one with their maker. He. I felt physically ill when I saw them. No one except lemmings following blindly to where the MoG leads believes them when they say that they only learned about certain facts recently. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. 2023 www.news-leader.com. Think of it as telling a kid how special they are every day and giving them a trophy daily. I only write the truth about Gateway in order to warn others, never to discourage anyone. full of manly manness and praise of human strength and wisdom and all the attributes mark has himself. He screamed and swore. Can anyone explain this James River Church thing to me? I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? Questions about James River Church : r/springfieldMO - reddit I can forgive someone even without an apology. I know you are already familiar with it but for anyone else not familiar, it was written in the context of David and Saul. James River Church Online - James River TV Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. he smiles and there is love in his heart. a couple months ago a young under legal age man near where i live went to a party and drove home with other kids in the car and wrecked. "But we can speak and encourage people to vote in terms of the morality of the issue.". ATB Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). 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How to Resign from a Church I recently ran into Scott Thomas and asked him about his promise to never abandon our orphans. He was no longer at Mars Hill Church and was himself suffering a level of abuse from the Mars Hill Church leadership. Whenever I hear Mark Driscolls name, a passage keeps popping in my mind Beware of Alexander the coppersmith he has done us much harm. Driscoll and his potty-mouth preaching made an everlasting mark on 21st century church in America. i think that it worked quite well for Youth with a Mission for several years and then it went awry and i dont know the particulars of what happened. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. Are you not voting? I believe that.' GW is also currently preaching John Hagees End Times Armageddon sermons to pump up the numbers, claiming the Rapture WILL take place prior to 12-31-18, in order to scare folks into those spontaneous tubs. I assumed that it was just me and 25,000 other people had no issue. now i am going to see if i can stand to listen to the whole mark speaks video. My guess is that their Calvinism isnt the root problem here. Driscoll has been more than a jerk, he has shown the inability to hold power without abusing it. You are so spot on. Nancy Its what he does. MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. It is all choreographed and it works! If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who? One of six. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. The Washington Post published the following headline last Sunday: Controversial preacher Mark Driscoll stripped from megachurch Hillsong conference lineup link. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. Missouri church service Saturday evening. And the honest churches will know that most of the allegations are true and will be too ashamed to say anything. *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). Thats an interesting thought. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. I never thought of that but that certainly might be the case. You cant speak in tongues? Mark is playing the victim. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). Within a few months most of the members of Mars Hill Church withdrew their support of orphans under our care. especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. We have strongly encouraged masking and social distancing each and every weekend during this challenging season. One needed them because they were somehow spiritually qualified (?) I think many. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. In December 2007, Merle and I quietly left Mars Hill Church. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. . The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. "It was clear to me that Mark's attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose of Hillsong Conference, which is to see people leave encouraged in their own spiritual journey.". Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Churches are tax-exempt. Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. No, there is no reason to believe CJ committed actual crimes. I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. sam wrote: some things i noticed are in (parenthesis) Pokin Around: 'Cussing pastor' to preach at James River Church Lindell's sermon is further entwined with politics because he mentions Springfield Mayor Bob Stephens. I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21 He could continue the stance that we could not leave because we were under discipline and offend the large donor, or he could let us leave in peace and not offend the donor. Did Driscoll forget about the part where Saul went away for years after his conversion. I believe in forgiveness, but cautious about putting such folks back on the platform. He sought out those that God sent Him to minister to in remote places away from crowds. Guess well see. "In other words, you can believe what you want within the confines of the four walls of the church as long as you don't live it outside of the church.". Until that flaw is named and claimed, it is reasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen again. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. At that time, although I led Agathos, I was not taking a salary from Agathos. @ sam: (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) EXCLUSIVE: THE WEDDING's OFF! BRAD PITT FAMILY CAUGHT IN A GAY SCANDAL His statement is factually incorrect. The sad part is that members have no idea how they are viewed unless they ask uncomfortable questions. Based on my experience, this public story should be seen as somewhat inevitable in how they operate. Hillsong Church Disinvites Mark Driscoll While James River Church Mr. Petry was fired and ordered to be excommunicated and shunned for his opposing Driscolls move to consolidate power in the church and not have Biblical accountability before the elders. For a number of reasons Texans dont want to say bad things about a church no matter how many people are being hurt. Watch LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm, and 7pm as well as every Wednesday at 7pm. I dont think theres been any repentance at all. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. To learn more, visit ja. He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? Some Pentecostals or Charismatics are okay with women being preachers or teachers. Forgiveness does not address that issue at all. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. Posted by NancyAlcorn at 1:06 PM 2 comments. And there were no acrobats, flying drummers, or the need to check out the latest cosmetic procedure on the head worship pastor there. jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. Reverend Mark Driscoll has sinned before many witness, this had been profusely and laboriously documented, and is to be rebuked before all. Not a fan but many are. The women say as part of the program they were taught to believe that they were possessed by the devil, and have since been forced to receive years of professional psychiatric treatment. in the first years of the organinazation they didnt do anything without consensus because they believed that if they were a group of believers the Lord would make them of the same agreement on specific issues and if they didnt reach agreement there was a reason that needed to be looked at. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. Im not kidding. Personally I do not believe God would ever anoint a blatant false teacher. Remember how everyone always tells Muslims to denounce terrorism and extremism? 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. ( As with the dituation with John Mark mentioned in Acts, and the conflict with Peter mentioned in Galatians. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. Likewise, in house churches sin happens because people will be people. believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. Glassdoor provides our best prediction for total pay in today's job market, along with other types of pay like cash bonuses, stock bonuses, profit sharing, sales commissions, and tips. If not, why not? it is so sad it breaks my heart. Mark Driscoll has shown that hes capable of inflicting a lot of damage on many people. Christian institutions are trying to express an organic Jesus in non-organic structures. we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. Even if youre looking at Christianity from a strictly business like mindset, I dont see how its good marketing or profitable to do the sexist shtick. I dont see how or why the Jerusalem church could have trusted him at that point, even though they might (or some of them might) have believed his vision and repentance were real. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? Is this similar to Radical Chic? notable pastors have been pouring into his life. it sounds like you have a story of sorts. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. Bah, hit reply to soon. Pastor John Lindell mentioned that Mark and Grace founded Mars Hill Church eighteen years ago. Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. He told me he appreciated my column and my work at the News-Leader. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. Who would have thought that the message of the Cross for ALL people (the whosoever wills) would be diminished in pentecostal ranks?! I hope I am wrong. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. I can appreciate that sentiment Gram3 and I applaud it. Many teach that when Paul said he was chief of all sinners he was claiming to be as evil as he always was. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. Others obviously put a lot more emphasis on organizational structures, so they might see things differently. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? . think of him as he is pray to glorified jesusking of kings lord of lords worshiped by angels. stephen says Ive gotta find jesus on the worst most devasting difficult damaging day of my life I have to find jesus (more mark interpreting the bible for all of us non pastors, stephen already knew where Jesus was) and he sees jesus, what is jesus doing? Mega churches are asking people to step back from the reality of how they effect people and just go along with a bunch of rules and covenants and christianeese and let them stay in their positions cause their friends say they are changed. of course i have no idea really what is driving mark driscoll but thats what i think it might be. forgiveness means its paid in full. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. It was like my eyes were open. I asked where he got such information. and that it is ok to debate that point in public. It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. Its much harder to leave that way. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? HUG so aptly quotes GK Chesterton, and let me paraphrase her, i tweeted: How can they do that? instead i find now that the Lord uses other christians to confirm things He has shown me, instead of the Lord teaching me things that others say i should believe and me just accepting them as the word of God because the guy has a position or written a book or is promoted by other pastors. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. I am not surprised he is mobilizing his church, which packs a powerful political punch through the sheer number of members and, I believe, their commitment to vote. CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. At a cash price of 2600 Denarii ($210,000 in Roman money) a book? I wish just one person would have spoken up sooner. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. The Rev. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. was paul asking for forgiveness? I dont think he would agree he is doing well at all. I met the pastor. (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) Robert Morris loves putting his flock under the law regarding Mosaic Law tithing and also under Deuteronomy so he can squeeze out extravagant gifts. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. Or alcoholics working in a bar. He was an abusing thug. But we rarely hear about that. It was titled "A Biblical Look at Human Sexuality." COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . But you need to make sure you hear the second truth. If he is serious about ministry then he needs to stay away from those circumstances which enable him to get into trouble-money, power and the pulpit. Mark Driscoll should not be a preacher ever again. Applying this mode to spiritual abuse has gotten me thinking..and I wonder if in the future Mark will only hang around people/churches that are willing to stay on this Drama Triangle. May the Lord bless our search for da truth, and grant us mucho wisdom. There will be a day of reckoning. His messages change in content, but not in root meaning. I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. Connection ends, shunning begins and the cycle begins all over again with the next batch of newbies. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? Whatever is going through Marks head, he is bent on getting people to listen to him again and to be heard. Members are guests? That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. yelling at the referees for too many seasons. But Peter rebuked him for his motives and told him to repent of his wickedness and told him he was gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.. Except we now know Mark didnt actually write he books he used ghost writers and plagiarized, but minor details, an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. hmmm Same deal with Driscoll, just a different sound track. I agree with you there, but I wonder, how popular is this hyper macho brand of Christianity anymore?